(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[1800]OT[5x60 byo-yomi]
PW[breakfast]PB[fj]WR[3p]BR[6d]DT[2013-05-10]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]C[fj [6d\]: have a nice game
breakfast [3p\]: have a good game!
]RE[W+Resign]
;B[pd]BL[1783.656]C[Muttley [3k\]: fh ftw!
]
;W[dc]WL[1787.268]C[thehorror [3d?\]: hey, it's mister dickhut
quahog [4k\]: Thanks Breakfast for making these games public!
]
;B[pq]BL[1775.787]C[Muttley [3k\]: oh, fj, pardon me.
Muttley [3k\]: not that admin are biased.
]
;W[ep]WL[1744.393]C[thehorror [3d?\]: for a moment i thought that was a 5-5 stone
manul [1k?\]: time for flood!
manul [1k?\]: %)
]
;B[cp]BL[1741.029]C[Muttley [3k\]: Kobayashi used to say, invading the 5-4 immediately was the most resolute approach
thehorror [3d?\]: fj's picture is what i look like playing go
thehorror [3d?\]: that's what i always do. i must be very resolute
]
;W[cq]WL[1692.174]C[thehorror [3d?\]: fj dc
WiteDragon [4k\]: who likes cats better than apes?
thehorror [3d?\]: old ladies
]
;B[qk]BL[1626.145]C[WiteDragon [4k\]: so lets get some kibitz starting. I, as a proud kyu, like o17 best here
caubevalue [1k\]: wow
]
;W[nq]WL[1573.872]C[thehorror [3d?\]: i would follow up in the lower left as w
WiteDragon [4k\]: haven't seen this move before...
okiol [1k\]: please don't kibitz, it's teaching game
thehorror [3d?\]: but that's probably slow. but i am kind of slow
okiol [1k\]: the players can see chat
WiteDragon [4k\]: excue me?
Minjhou [7k\]: why to invade at C4 and then tenuki?
WiteDragon [4k\]: yes trust me they don't mind
thehorror [3d?\]: oklol, if breakfast minded he would probably stop making these games T
okiol [1k\]: ok sure
okiol [1k\]: or he could mute with ctrl+m
caubevalue [1k\]: tenuki = ?
karmaic [1d\]: you can mute the chat? i didn't know that
Minjhou [7k\]: tenuki is playing elsewhere... a 1k should know that
]
;B[po]BL[1507.878]C[quahog [4k\]: and what value would they possibly get out of reading our inane comments?
thehorror [3d?\]: kramaic, the owners of the room can in D and T games
]
;W[kq]WL[1561.657]C[expo [-\]: I think he wanna say that he didnt tenuki :)
pouchard [2d\]: O3 idea is to aim at R3 if b pincers
Minjhou [7k\]: B tenukied after C3 W's answer to C4
]
;B[bq]BL[1470.229]C[okiol [1k\]: please attempt to push 1k down because of how little he knows, when you're 7k...
]
;W[dq]WL[1543.561]C[MXHero [4d\]: the o3 idea is really to just prevent b from occupying the good point at k4
]
;B[bo]BL[1463.796]C[kayagsa [3d\]: who win?
Minjhou [7k\]: you asked about the tenuki, and I answered, what's wrong with that?
thehorror [3d?\]: i agree with the 7k that a 1k should know what a tenuki is, lol
kayagsa [3d\]: break lways win for 6d
kayagsa [3d\]: always
okiol [1k\]: i didn't ask, and you didn't answer the guy he asked
gerulas [3k\]: chubaka
WiteDragon [4k\]: thanks MXHero, but i've only seen n3 before
Minjhou [7k\]: oh, ok, you aren't the one who asked
thehorror [3d?\]: o3 n3 and n4 are all common plays
Minjhou [7k\]: nevermind, the point is the same
]
;W[hp]WL[1468.799]C[gerulas [3k\]: tenuki is a top pro isnt it lol
okiol [1k\]: i think the biggest difference between n3 and o3 is style, right?
thehorror [3d?\]: not really sure, tbh
WiteDragon [4k\]: odd i haven't seen o3 before then..
WiteDragon [4k\]: got to watch more games :)
okiol [1k\]: it's like fashion, it comes and goes
pouchard [2d\]: now O3 Q5 exchange is good for b
MXHero [4d\]: yeah, well they have very differen follow-up sequences (many of which have never been played in a game, ever)
okiol [1k\]: :D
okiol [1k\]: i'm sure they have
okiol [1k\]: so one should probably pick one of them and stick to it, because they'll probably be good in the same cases almost always
kayagsa [3d\]: d15?
MXHero [4d\]: that's a bit naive, okiol; it assumes that it is possible to "fully understand" the o3 move, for example
okiol [1k\]: i call d7!
thehorror [3d?\]: o17
okiol [1k\]: no, it assumes that i don't, and won't understand it good enough to be able to tell the use of them appart
caubevalue [1k\]: no
WiteDragon [4k\]: d15
]
;B[de]BL[1289.575]C[MXHero [4d\]: but that's the funny paradox, okiol
backpack1 [2d\]: d7 is solid, d15  and o17  ar kinda mia
WiteDragon [4k\]: hurrah!
backpack1 [2d\]: miai*
MXHero [4d\]: because everybody can tell the difference between o3 and, for example, n3 for one specific reason: the placement of the stone is different
caubevalue [1k\]: d15 different
WiteDragon [4k\]: yilun yang says d15 more rgent than o17
RedDwarf [?\]: mama miai
MXHero [4d\]: so -everybody- can tell there is a difference, but nobody knows exactly what that means
okiol [1k\]: so since i won't ever be good enough to say in this special case i'll play o3 because it's better, i won't bother to learn both, but one, and i will get stronger by learning the follow ups to only that one
thehorror [3d?\]: mxhero loves to split hairs
okiol [1k\]: or i just play what i feel like and just read :)
MXHero [4d\]: and to make it even more frustratingly simple, w has even -showed- us what o3 means to him in this game
joz12345 [14k\]: but then someone plays the one u dont know okiol :p
MXHero [4d\]: it means that h4 was a balanced extension from the left side
okiol [1k\]: yep
]
;W[cg]WL[1343.416]C[okiol [1k\]: but there's a smaller chance of that happening if i play the same every time... playing different every game just makes it certain it will happen, joz
MXHero [4d\]: i don't think i'm splitting hairs because i am saying something actually very general, not something specific
RoterTee [1d\]: tht sound weird okiol, because every follow up has a tones of follow ups himselve, so where ti stop to learn only one move?
DBraymer [17k\]: Is it better to jump out here?
DBraymer [17k\]: For B, I mean
]
;B[cc]BL[1249.628]C[DBraymer [17k\]: :o
okiol [1k\]: well you obviously don't learn everything, but you get a feel for the strong points and the weak points of the situation, i think it's the same with always going with the same fuseki
okiol [1k\]: you won't play replicas almost ever, but you'll still recognize some patterns and ideas that will return often enough
MXHero [4d\]: to deny yourself the option to play o3, or any move, is to deny not only that go is an extremely complex game, but to deny embracing that fact
DBraymer [17k\]: well said
thehorror [3d?\]: mxhero, oklol said something like "i'll never understand that difference between o3 and n3" then you said "everyone knows the difference (1 rank over) but no one knows what the difference means." i said you were splitting hairs because i think you both said the same thing, but you were trying to be very precise. maybe i used the phrase incorrectly
MXHero [4d\]: and it's also strange to think that, by spending more time with the n3 move rather than the o3 move, you believe you are actually getting "closer" to fully understanding one move
MXHero [4d\]: oh i see, thehorror, that was me splitting hairs a bit :)
]
;W[cb]WL[1164.687]
;B[cd]BL[1243.227]C[Bogdan [1k\]: this game of go is too complex for me :(
]
;W[gc]WL[1151.64]C[WiteDragon [4k\]: it's too complex for anyone
DBraymer [17k\]: It is too complex for all of us
WiteDragon [4k\]: now this ove really is in fashion
DBraymer [17k\]: Something around L-M 17 for B?
MXHero [4d\]: and once you embrace that fact, you'll see why playing o3 can be better than n3 (without knowing it)
okiol [1k\]: no, i think it's a good basic concept, to try and limit the options to get more often to concepts, ideas and positions that look similar to something that you're used to
WiteDragon [4k\]: at lest on kgs i don't see anything else any more
okiol [1k\]: if you play only 1 joseki all the time, you won't ever be fooled in that one joseki atleast :)
okiol [1k\]: (probably)
MXHero [4d\]: =)
thehorror [3d?\]: wite dragon, i think you are confusing this with d15 c13 c17 g17 
DBraymer [17k\]: L17 for B?
MXHero [4d\]: but you'll be fooled into -playing- that joseki, hehe
pouchard [2d\]: this joseki ll be good for w is b plays normally
DBraymer [17k\]: Or is that too much to reach
pouchard [2d\]: if*
okiol [1k\]: like twoeye do, he plays the same trickplay josekis all the time, and even though everbody knows it, it still works, because he's really used to them, and he can play at 7d level
WiteDragon [4k\]: b probably wants to add a move on his d15 group first Dbraymer
]
(;B[dg]BL[1110.075]C[DBraymer [17k\]: Ah
DBraymer [17k\]: It wasn't quite secure yet
caubevalue [1k\]: c12
Sandmann [6d\]: a lot of josekis
okiol [1k\]: sure, but i'm saying if i can't tell the difference of the use of that joseki and other josekis, i should just always play the one, ok anyway, i think discussion is getting too long for in-game, let's look at the game :)
kamistar [?\]: gg
breakfast [3p\]: bad joseki choice here?
MXHero [4d\]: very cool game
]
;W[dh]WL[1123.644]
;B[eb]BL[1100.554]C[ophiuroid [12k\]: this episode of Go Philosophy has been brought to you by...
thehorror [3d?\]: many, many ama games just boil down to some crazy fight. win it, win the game. so joseki are irrelevant
okiol [1k\]: like there are some josekis that i just basically will never get to play, because i'll never play as any player in them, and that's fine
]
;W[db]WL[1089.688]
;B[ec]BL[1097.647]
;W[ed]WL[1081.741]C[okiol [1k\]: always good to be able to stack the cards in your favour in the fights though :)
]
;B[dd]BL[1093.089]C[DBraymer [17k\]: Can B save the E18 pair?
backpack1 [2d\]: no
sum [5d\]: not if W capture
]
;W[fc]WL[1043.056]C[Bogdan [1k\]: how important is w c14 after f17 f16 e19 ?
thehorror [3d?\]: c12
sum [5d\]: E13
pouchard [2d\]: good for w imo
Arsenic [1d\]: pls dont suggest moves, they cam see
thehorror [3d?\]: i thought b can cut here
thehorror [3d?\]: sure, they can see. they also don't care and are stronger than anyone kibitzing
thehorror [3d?\]: except for maybe sum
sum [5d\]: if they read instead of play it is their mistake
WiteDragon [4k\]: seriously arsenic, these are 6d+ players
quahog [4k\]: Arsenic...do you think a 3p would take a suggestion from any of us?
WiteDragon [4k\]: we're not helping them
]
(;B[fd]BL[1006.643]C[DBraymer [17k\]: So I can just keep talking, right? :D
WiteDragon [4k\]: lol yeah
quahog [4k\]: they are likely fully ignoring this chat
Arsenic [1d\]: the move was suggested for fj though
]
;W[ee]WL[1021.245]C[Bogdan [1k\]: well, if 3p and 6d can read these moves I wouldn't be worried :)
DBraymer [17k\]: I had been thinking F15 but I'm curious to see what B does
]
;B[ff]BL[993.863]C[Lake [3k\]: yes. 3p would laugh at face of any 6d
]
;W[ea]WL[1011.219]C[Valentino [2d\]: not aguilar :P
]
;B[ef]BL[984.294]
;W[fb]WL[1007.891]C[backpack1 [2d\]: white isnt a real 3p, its a honourary rank
]
;B[ch]BL[977.73]C[Yopai [3k\]: not again...
Bogdan [1k\]: aguilar was 9d
backpack1 [2d\]: he didnt pass the pro exam
thehorror [3d?\]: not this again...
backpack1 [2d\]: ^^
DBraymer [17k\]: Doesn't the US have a pro exam now?
]
;W[cf]WL[987.445]C[okiol [1k\]: no problem, fj just needs some kyu moves and he'll win for sure
sum [5d\]: but 7 * European Champion not bad either:)
thehorror [3d?\]: no, dbraymer
thehorror [3d?\]: they do have pro tournament though
DBraymer [17k\]: Ahh
quahog [4k\]: the US (AGA) does have a pro certification process now
thehorror [3d?\]: not quite the same thing
DBraymer [17k\]: I remembered hearing something about the first American Pros last year
okiol [1k\]: he's as real as pro as anyone else, just not as strong, but that's like saying no female pro player or any of the weaker are real pros
DBraymer [17k\]: Andy something or other 
DBraymer [17k\]: I think
thehorror [3d?\]: andy liu and gansheng shi
DBraymer [17k\]: Ah, there we are
thehorror [3d?\]: yes, they are the first aga pros
DBraymer [17k\]: I'm waiting for my copy of the game record to come, I backed The Surrounding Game
breakfast [3p\]: was my answer correct?
breakfast [3p\]: after B13
fj [6d\]: that was new at least
]
(;B[bg]BL[827.643]C[caubevalue [1k\]: c14
Sandmann [6d\]: yesss
Sandmann [6d\]: I always wanted to know how this worked
DBraymer [17k\]: ?
WiteDragon [4k\]: white can't just b12 now?
Bogdan [1k\]: I could never think at b13 for b.... This is why I am 1k...
pouchard [2d\]: B14 seems too good for w
Sandmann [6d\]: it's not an obvious move
ophiuroid [12k\]: b12 c11 b14?
okiol [1k\]: it's not easy to read, but still... shouldn't it almost be the first move you read there?
okiol [1k\]: it really fits well with what black wants
thehorror [3d?\]: d14 should be the first move you read
thehorror [3d?\]: b13 is not good shape. idk why you think it should be the first move that comes to mind
DangoMango [2k\]: b13 seems to be a counter for c14
Muttley [3k\]: Every teaching game by breakfast I've watched had rank-related comments on it, and I warned before I would remove for people starting this chestnut.
DangoMango [2k\]: c14 is quite interesting to be honest
Muttley [3k\]: please take note :)
okiol [1k\]: because if i want to enclose w i want to look at that move first, since it's the most aggresive and difficult move
sdsg: 1 way - c11
breakfast [3p\]: B13?
breakfast [3p\]: was it joseki?
breakfast [3p\]: never saw it before
HappyLook [5d\]: he left the game
HappyLook [5d\]: oh, returned :)
breakfast [3p\]: oh, pity
omggg [?\]: back
thehorror [3d?\]: no he didnlt
breakfast [3p\]: fj?
Muttley [3k\]: no, fj is around breakfast :)
MXHero [4d\]: is it d11 that is joseki here, instead of b13?
pouchard [2d\]: B14 bad ?
fj [6d\]: had some trouble with sound
breakfast [3p\]: B13?
breakfast [3p\]: was it your new move?
breakfast [3p\]: or pro idea?
breakfast [3p\]: I never saw it
]
(;W[df]WL[700.756]C[thehorror [3d?\]: i think thaht's a good policy, muttlee
okiol [1k\]: what do you mean by rank related, muttley?
Muttley [3k\]: thanks to all who are making game related kibbitz, so much better :)
WiteDragon [4k\]: about breakfast's rank
DangoMango [2k\]: i think what b missed was a move at e17
Valentino [2d\]: i think b has to b14 now
okiol [1k\]: i don't understand what he's waiting for
WiteDragon [4k\]: i don' see any other move
]
;B[bf]BL[756.731]C[okiol [1k\]: if he don't know how to answer to d14 he shouldn't play b13 ^^
MXHero [4d\]: it is possible to just connect
]
;W[eg]WL[685.322]C[okiol [1k\]: c11
WiteDragon [4k\]: after connect w b14 then what?
]
;B[ce]BL[741.078]C[Gureborn2 [1k\]: pftt double hane 
]
;W[dg]WL[676.702]C[okiol [1k\]: f15 big?
MXHero [4d\]: then connect and make a big wall; it is a possible choice, that's all
thehorror [3d?\]: f15 is heavy
Sandmann [6d\]: next question: what if b had played d11 atari before
]
;B[ci]BL[710.232]C[okiol [1k\]: heavy????
MXHero [4d\]: yes f14 is extremely heavy
DangoMango [2k\]: heavy is opposite of light
MXHero [4d\]: which is not bad, again it is a choice (and a choice that may change soon)
Muttley [3k\]: f15 is worse than heavy, it is aji keshi
okiol [1k\]: i said f15
]
;W[bc]WL[639.404]C[Muttley [3k\]: it's a bad move.
okiol [1k\]: how can it possibly be aji keshi
]
;B[ec]BL[691.283]
;W[eb]WL[632.186]
;B[fe]BL[688.773]C[Muttley [3k\]: because you may want instead, if w plays F15, to play G15 instead, for example
okiol [1k\]: oops b about to play a bad move
Valentino [2d\]: hmm b seems to disagree :P
]
;W[ec]WL[626.919]C[caubevalue [1k\]: yeah
ophiuroid [12k\]: nah he got rid of the eye first
]
;B[bd]BL[681.398]
;W[ad]WL[619.277]C[Muttley [3k\]: seems so :) but E17 anyway is better style
thehorror [3d?\]: oklol, you need to relax
]
;B[be]BL[673.024]C[chigurh [2k\]: what a cluster* of stones
]
;W[fg]WL[599.223]C[x0000 [-\]: a lot of very good shapes in this game
thehorror [3d?\]: now b has to run away with 4 stones
]
;B[he]BL[657.658]C[WiteDragon [4k\]: seriosly show this situation to anyone walking in and he thinks it's a ddk game
okiol [1k\]: i find it just milidly annoying when people around my rank don't even think for 1 second before telling me a move i suggest is terrible, and i don't really think they're right
Bolibompa [2d\]: My dango is bigger then yours
MXHero [4d\]: if you pack the stones closer together, you get to make even more shapes, right? :)
Arsenic [1d\]: h4 indicates otherwise
]
;W[hg]WL[557.221]C[Muttley [3k\]: okiol, you actually asked a question :)
Muttley [3k\]: it's a bit inconsistent to then complain it got answered :)
okiol [1k\]: but you answered very, very certain, and wrong
okiol [1k\]: ok fine
Muttley [3k\]: so?
Muttley [3k\]: :)
MXHero [4d\]: lol
Sandmann [6d\]: please do not quarrel
Arsenic [1d\]: can admins censor people?
Muttley [3k\]: if you base your knowledge on go on kibbitz replies ...
MXHero [4d\]: sandmann gets a bonus point for saying quarrel
grrr [15k?\]: big girls blouse
WiteDragon [4k\]: can someone tell me the use of a16 besides losing a ko threat?
]
;B[je]BL[578.436]C[DBraymer [17k\]: It had forced a move for B, didn't it?
MXHero [4d\]: wite, now if b b18, w could choose a18 for a ko
thehorror [3d?\]: mxhero, quarrel quarrel quarrel
MXHero [4d\]: so many bonus points, thehorror!!!
thehorror [3d?\]: yes!
Muttley [3k\]: anyway, back to the game thanks :)
WiteDragon [4k\]: ah ok
Muttley [3k\]: I guess b is saying "have a treat, be overconcentrated re: G15
okiol [1k\]: funny position, not sure who's ahead
]
;W[ek]WL[388.729]C[thehorror [3d?\]: man, kgs hasbeen up for 53 days. something's got to give
Valentino [2d\]: W center now looking yummy
okiol [1k\]: b seems to have slightly more points and potential, but also, f15 is the weakest group on the board, and quite heavy
DBraymer [17k\]: Ohh interesting move; i wsa thinging E10 but I wasn't bold enough
DBraymer [17k\]: was thinking**
thehorror [3d?\]: dbraymer isn't 17k
DBraymer [17k\]: ?
WiteDragon [4k\]: thehorror if kgs now goes down i will hunt you down
Muttley [3k\]: good sense of direction, DBraymer :)
Muttley [3k\]: better than 17k normal :)
MXHero [4d\]: in order to see one reason why e9 is not too far, notice that w g13 is sente
]
;B[ej]BL[518.13]C[MXHero [4d\]: with that in mind, this is a huge wall
okiol [1k\]: ah good point, mxhero
caubevalue [1k\]: >\\
]
;W[fj]WL[352.09]
;B[dj]BL[510.872]C[largehc [-\]: no no, when you're new at the game, you're paying attention to the important stuff 
Muttley [3k\]: outlines of a moyo vs terriotry = ultraviolence later game
]
;W[fk]WL[315.567]C[okiol [1k\]: b should just
okiol [1k\]: k13
thehorror [3d?\]: breakfast doesn't really have a violent style
DBraymer [17k\]: Have any of you guys used that webapp that analyzes your KGS games and rates you on various 'styles' of play?
RepportNE [1d\]: d8
WiteDragon [4k\]: yes
pouchard [2d\]: E10 overplay imo
RepportNE [1d\]: or tenuki
TblKBA [1d\]: whats the url?
WiteDragon [4k\]: i'm greedy it seems
okiol [1k\]: oh no i haven't, can you link?
Muttley [3k\]: yes, mine said "Have you considered therapy?"
caubevalue [1k\]: d8 no sente\\
MXHero [4d\]: lol
WiteDragon [4k\]: lol
DBraymer [17k\]: Sure, lemme grab the link
pouchard [2d\]: F9 is too good
okiol [1k\]: wait
okiol [1k\]: don't post here
DBraymer [17k\]: Ah, PM then?
okiol [1k\]: it destroys the window
okiol [1k\]: sure
Muttley [3k\]: good point!
adele: no no post ot here pls
Muttley [3k\]: please post it in the ECR
TblKBA [1d\]: why no post?
WiteDragon [4k\]: destroys the window??
scrwbll19 [10k\]: could you please send me the link too?
adele: do it here
]
;B[kg]BL[420.06]C[DBraymer [17k\]: How about this; if you want to find it go to the subreddit /r/baduk
thehorror [3d?\]: post it in the egr. that place needs to be nuked :-x
okiol [1k\]: lol do it here then if ppl are fine with it, it's ok for me
Muttley [3k\]: yes, Java, can't handle the long strings
MXHero [4d\]: probably best to do what the moderator says :)
caubevalue [1k\]: l13
Muttley [3k\]: breaks the carriage returns, pain in the butt.
okiol [1k\]: i don't have ECR
DBraymer [17k\]: Go to the /r/baduk sub and search for 'webapp'
FeuduCiel [12k\]: all the battle is now in centre
Muttley [3k\]: thank you DBraymer
DBraymer [17k\]: You can either submit .sgf files or type in your KGS name
caubevalue [1k\]: o don't know * moyo is here *
FeuduCiel [12k\]: the north is not close
DBraymer [17k\]: And it rates strength, style, and gives you players that play similar to you
Fabiano [2d\]: what is the credibility of the app?
Muttley [3k\]: Funded by the mafia.
DBraymer [17k\]: I'm not entirely sure
Muttley [3k\]: Completely legit.
pouchard [2d\]: P9
Muttley [3k\]: pretty good, apparent;y
badshape [16k\]: Is it the 15 questions one?
DBraymer [17k\]: It's someone's master's thesis project I think
]
;W[qf]WL[193.977]C[DBraymer [17k\]: to test datamining techniques in go records
Fabiano [2d\]: i see
Muttley [3k\]: ok, anyone counted this one?
thehorror [3d?\]: lol, it said i'm 6k :-(
FeuduCiel [12k\]: n 17 ?
MXHero [4d\]: so far it's w+4.5, by my count
Muttley [3k\]: I think b is ahead but probably needs gote to consolidate
okiol [1k\]: cool i found it, link was really short, so it's ok to post
pouchard [2d\]: R14 doesn t seem to match with w moyo
thehorror [3d?\]: white is building a moyo?
Muttley [3k\]: okiol, if you break the carriage returns I will be unhappy bunny :)
thehorror [3d?\]: where?
]
;B[qe]BL[351.96]
;W[pf]WL[188.869]
;B[nd]BL[348.339]
;W[qi]WL[183.793]C[MXHero [4d\]: i believe in L13, but i was feeling the O5 area more
TblKBA [1d\]: still cant find that link
okiol [1k\]: http:// gostyle.j2m.cz/ webapp.html
okiol [1k\]: remove the spaces
Muttley [3k\]: ok, thanks :)
]
;B[oj]BL[324.43]C[TblKBA [1d\]: thanks
pouchard [2d\]: R14 makes L 13 work
Muttley [3k\]: appreciate you taking the care :)
okiol [1k\]: ;)
thehorror [3d?\]: w trying to make a moyo on this board is bad
GoBored [1d\]: B is better?
GoBored [1d\]: hard to close this center
Fabiano [2d\]: wow that app is pretty coolio
caubevalue [1k\]: black wanna center group
]
;W[nh]WL[94.619]C[okiol [1k\]: is there some easy way to extract lots of games from kgs at the same time?
GoBored [1d\]: but W is extremely good usually with dealing with such moyos
]
(;B[dm]BL[291.196]C[MXHero [4d\]: hmmmmm i don't like L13 anymore!!!
Muttley [3k\]: okiol, gosquares is the webpage
okiol [1k\]: i predicted d7 50 moves ago, i just didn't realise they'd be doing this fast little sequence of probe moves inbetween
Muttley [3k\]: I think that one allows multiple sgf downloads
]
;W[mi]WL[17.708]C[mhmhhmh: who is teaching who?
Fabiano [2d\]: the app says im a moyo novel safe fighter if that makes any sense
Muttley [3k\]: also, check the archive on the gokgs website
mongrel3k [1k\]: w looks better
thehorror [3d?\]: breakfast is teaching a a group of his students in a private room
thehorror [3d?\]: the lessons are actually really good
thehorror [3d?\]: too bad i don't have money to throw away for go
Goran [2d\]: My style is pending
caubevalue [1k\]: all people is teach , @@ oh mygod , lol @@
breakfast [3p\]: now B has too many holes
breakfast [3p\]: N11!
breakfast [3p\]: honte move
fj [6d\]: D7 was not good timing
breakfast [3p\]: yes
breakfast [3p\]: ok, was a pleasure to play you again
breakfast [3p\]: see you!
thehorror [3d?\]: ty
pouchard [2d\]: thx both
thehorror [3d?\]: both
Muttley [3k\]: thanks both
MXHero [4d\]: n11 is beautiful
omggg [?\]: thanks guys :)
fj [6d\]: well someday I have to win ^^
AutoAtari [2d\]: thanks
fj [6d\]: thx
Higgson [4k\]: thx
Sasha0529 [1d\]: w e18 group beautiful too
]
;B[mj]BL[213.232]
;W[lj]WL[4.211]
;B[mk]BL[208.746]C[lobosaito [1k\]: m16 is a good choice for w?
TblKBA [1d\]: huh, it says I am 3d
DangoMango [2k\]: what's the purpose of n10? 
pouchard [2d\]: b is reinforcing w
DangoMango [2k\]: yea
]
;W[qc]WL[60]OW[5]C[mongrel3k [1k\]: m16  looking fine for w
thehorror [3d?\]: w i already strong. b is a little thin
okiol [1k\]: how did you all get so many sgf files so fast? ^^
Fabiano [2d\]: put your kgs name on the textfield
Fabiano [2d\]: it fetches directly from the kgs server
okiol [1k\]: oooooh
okiol [1k\]: i didn't see option number 2 :D
okiol [1k\]: lol thanks, you just saved me 20 minutes of copying files
]
;B[qd]BL[62.857]C[okiol [1k\]: omg so exciting, i hope they tell me i'm crazy
]
;W[nc]WL[60]OW[5]C[MXHero [4d\]: the app told me i possibly like capturing stones too much :)
WiteDragon [4k\]: whoa o17
Minjhou [7k\]: they will, for sure
WiteDragon [4k\]: who comes up with that
okiol [1k\]: 3d+-2.63 stones, seems about right
]
;B[mc]BL[28.582]C[pouchard [2d\]: D7 was coffee move
okiol [1k\]: haha what is a cofee move
weMadeYou [4k\]: really cool app, even gives you suggestions of pro games you should stufy to help you with your style and games opposite of your style
pouchard [2d\]: even if it s huge
WiteDragon [4k\]: ehm it say's i'm 2 dan +/- 2 stones...
pouchard [2d\]: it s like taking coffee during the battle
selpahi [1k\]: maybe it's a randomized app
Fabiano [2d\]: yea the ranking might be off
Fabiano [2d\]: but the pro suggestion is very nice
thehorror [3d?\]: "Professionals who have similar style as you:      Go Seigen "
thehorror [3d?\]: ^^
MXHero [4d\]: me too haha
Fabiano [2d\]: i learnt from Takemiya Masaki and the app told me my style is just like his
Fabiano [2d\]: Farthest style is Shusaku
Fabiano [2d\]: which is correct
]
;W[oc]WL[60]OW[4]C[okiol [1k\]: i thought i played territorial, but i guess i'm playing moyo style
thehorror [3d?\]: i think it says 3d for everyone. mine was also 3d+/-2.6
Muttley [3k\]: Apparently I'm kgs 25k +/- 2.63 k
duffer [5k\]: Go Siegen plays like thehorror.  Interesting
thehorror [3d?\]: lol
Muttley [3k\]: I resent that, I'm at least 21k.
okiol [1k\]: lol nothing is what i thought it would be
selpahi [1k\]: mine's still loading >_<
okiol [1k\]: ye took some while to load
MXHero [4d\]: i'm 8/10 aggressive
]
;B[pc]BL[60]OB[5]C[le4TC [7k\]: Hey, i'm 5k :D not too far off
bleep [7k\]: please could someone repost the link to the app, I am late to the conversation...
okiol [1k\]: i'm avarage in everything except going for the moyos a bit unusually much
Minjhou [7k\]: http://gostyle.j2m.cz
thehorror [3d?\]: i have a novel and aggressive style
bleep [7k\]: Thanks you
thehorror [3d?\]: which is exactly how i want my style to be
okiol [1k\]: Bad things you play: Hmm, we've got nothing to say to you...
Muttley [3k\]: I think it described my style very well, except for call me about 3d +/- 2.6 :))
okiol [1k\]: i like that
thehorror [3d?\]: yes, mutt. i think it says everyone is 3d
]
;W[mb]WL[60]OW[3]C[Muttley [3k\]: >-<
weMadeYou [4k\]: nah it said i was 2k +/- 2.13
]
;B[md]BL[60]OB[5]C[thehorror [3d?\]: no offense, i'm *sure* you really are /musses your hair/
MXHero [4d\]: the advice it gave me is disturbingly specific
okiol [1k\]: told me 3d+-2.6, which i chose to interprent as 5d
thehorror [3d?\]: "get a haircut and a job, you hippie" ?
]
;W[pb]WL[60]OW[3]C[humblelife [-\]: was it: paarctice with jim, accross the street?
]
;B[qb]BL[60]OB[5]C[MXHero [4d\]: it said that i really like to capture stones in the opening, and it asks me if it's really worth the "6 points" that i get from capturing
humblelife [-\]: nice one thehorror
MXHero [4d\]: i wonder what 3 stones i love to capture so much!
Muttley [3k\]: Apparently the player I most closely resemble is Keres
okiol [1k\]: where did it say that, mxhero?
]
;W[lc]WL[60]OW[3]C[MXHero [4d\]: in the "bad things you play" section
okiol [1k\]: oh
okiol [1k\]: i had nothing there
WiteDragon [4k\]: lol
MXHero [4d\]: dang lol
ophiuroid [12k\]: mxhero, I got the same line.  Along with the "6 points" remark.  So it's not that specific.
AutoAtari [2d\]: oh wow, I didn't know fj was so handsome
thehorror [3d?\]: the only thing it says for me is i should worry more about gote and sente
thehorror [3d?\]: which is true
MXHero [4d\]: oh okok, good to know
duffer [5k\]: O18
Muttley [3k\]: wonder if ... those b stones are staff around k15
]
;B[jc]BL[60]OB[5]C[Goran [2d\]: there will be ko
thehorror [3d?\]: so anyway guys, remember, i am basically go seigen
]
;W[od]WL[60]OW[3]C[Sasha0529 [1d\]: breakfast 3p, is he an american?
thehorror [3d?\]: no
thehorror [3d?\]: he is russian
Muttley [3k\]: Russian
]
;B[oe]BL[60]OB[5]C[omggg [?\]: lol American
thehorror [3d?\]: alexandre dinerchtein
okiol [1k\]: i didn't get the pattern-thing though
pouchard [2d\]: M16 more secure than K17
oberatlant [3k\]: эмигрант?
okiol [1k\]: it said i should play some patterns more often, but then it compared it to "strong players" and i got the same result as they did? :s
]
;W[ne]WL[60]OW[3]C[MXHero [4d\]: i didn't understand that either, okiol
Muttley [3k\]: I ran another account and got the same result :))
MXHero [4d\]: also, it's bad advice to say "peep more, like a strong go player!"
]
;B[me]BL[60]OB[5]C[WiteDragon [4k\]: :)
Muttley [3k\]: different rank, so drawn from a different pool of opponents
]
;W[nf]WL[60]OW[3]C[Muttley [3k\]: so it seems consistent to me
WiteDragon [4k\]: that's why it says to take with a grain of salt
okiol [1k\]: the red bar is to the left, with the strong players, also it seems weird to suggest that i should play more of moves that rarely happens in strong games
thehorror [3d?\]: it's saying how many time a particular pattern occurs in your games. the further you are to the left the more similar you are to "strong players" in frequency
Sasha0529 [1d\]: sure b is an american, i ve checked his infos
farg: he is russian...
omggg [?\]: German
thehorror [3d?\]: that all seems like basically shapes, peeps, caps, keima approaches, etc
farg: or german
]
;B[pa]BL[60]OB[5]C[okiol [1k\]: i'm thinking that it's backwards by accident
Muttley [3k\]: please, troll feeding ...
thehorror [3d?\]: i wish trolls would die if you stopped feeding them like tomagatchis
okiol [1k\]: if the "strong player" was to the right instead, everything makes sense
]
;W[ob]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[oa]BL[60]OB[5]
;W[nb]WL[60]OW[3]C[bleep [7k\]: why doesn't this game allow you to go back in the moves?
WiteDragon [4k\]: teaching
okiol [1k\]: because it's a teaching game
thehorror [3d?\]: cause it doesn't
humblelife [-\]: options. view offline
thehorror [3d?\]: options > clone
duffer [5k\]: you can clone it
okiol [1k\]: you can click options and veiw offline
thehorror [3d?\]: or view offline
okiol [1k\]: :D
quahog [4k\]: choose view off line and then you can
bleep [7k\]: ok, thanks
okiol [1k\]: many helpful ppl lol
k0n0 [?\]: view offline
]
;B[pe]BL[60]OB[5]C[duffer [5k\]: how's that for helpful suggestions ^^
k0n0 [?\]: or clone it
]
;W[kc]WL[60]OW[3]C[le4TC [7k\]: option -> view offline
bleep [7k\]: wow!
le4TC [7k\]: or you could clone it
bleep [7k\]: thanks!
k0n0 [?\]: it is in options
Muttley [3k\]: enough.
seele [?\]: shapemania.. o.o
Muttley [3k\]: we got the point :)
John316 [4k\]: shape-oriented
thehorror [3d?\]: admin telling us to stop being so nice, lol
farg: but did you get the vital point?
expo [-\]: I like the "." after enough :o makes it scary
WiteDragon [4k\]: when i grow up i want bold type as well
Muttley [3k\]: just be a parent.
Muttley [3k\]: everything ends in a full.
]
;B[kd]BL[60]OB[4]C[Sasha0529 [1d\]: russian doesn't have such an username like fj
]
;W[jb]WL[60]OW[3]C[okiol [1k\]: i've got to try this with all of my accounts and see if i get different results
duffer [5k\]: I did that - got similar results
Fabiano [2d\]: gave me the same result for different accounts
Muttley [3k\]: Sasha, breakfast is white, b is fj dickhut, who is German
]
;B[kb]BL[60]OB[4]C[farg: what an awful name
Fabiano [2d\]: lol
thehorror [3d?\]: a small number of games seems to effect it dramaticallt
duffer [5k\]: farg ain't so pretty either
WiteDragon [4k\]: this app is so good for my ego: "Bad things you play  Hmm, we've got nothing to say to you.."
]
;W[ka]WL[60]OW[3]C[farg: nah, but that's what you get when you rando type
]
;B[ib]BL[60]OB[4]
;W[lb]WL[60]OW[3]C[pouchard [2d\]: S17 aji
Catlemur [5k\]: I predict an r7 invasion later in the game
thehorror [3d?\]: whitedragon, that's because your play is so awful it can't even begin to comment
seele [?\]: why insert at l18?
]
;B[hc]BL[60]OB[4]C[okiol [1k\]: that's... bm...
pouchard [2d\]: B18 ko
WiteDragon [4k\]: but it also says i'm 2d sow how's that for awful :p
thehorror [3d?\]: 2d is pretty bad, lol. :-p
Fabiano [2d\]: 2d is very awful
weMadeYou [4k\]: seele it allowed b to split the white groups apart
WiteDragon [4k\]: not for a kyu
farg: says the 3d?
TblKBA [1d\]: 1d are weak..
Fabiano [2d\]: i really dont know jackshit yet im 2d
okiol [1k\]: we just agreed that it seemed to put all on 3d, so 2d is.... ^^
]
;W[bb]WL[60]OW[3]C[Muttley [3k\]: Fabiano, don't swear
WiteDragon [4k\]: hey another 4k here got 2k on the app
Minjhou [7k\]: hi Catlemur ;-)
Rontes [2k\]: 2d on kgs is 1k for real
badshape [16k\]: Ranks sweetrip as 5d. Likes to eat stones and empty triangles.
weMadeYou [4k\]: i got 2k +/- 2.13
Sandmann [-\]: upper right looks suspicious
WiteDragon [4k\]: aha!
AutoAtari [2d\]: I honestly don't know why I'm 2d
omggg [?\]: the scrifice at l18 was just to look cool
Prodigious [3d?\]: upper right is dead without one more move
Sasha0529 [1d\]: 1d like me is real 2~3k?
]
;B[lk]BL[60]OB[4]C[thehorror [3d?\]: because you play all the auto ataris, autoatari
okiol [1k\]: omg i love the waiting for processing
okiol [1k\]: it's so exciting
AutoAtari [2d\]: if I did that, I should be more like 25k
ophiuroid [12k\]: "We analyzed 35 games of player breakfast". The app called him 5d+-2.63. Because that's as high as their app goes.
Prodigious [3d?\]: the p14 aji is a bit annoying tho
thehorror [3d?\]: what does "real" mean?
HappyLook [5d\]: oh, i got: Huh, we think that you like the empty triangle. Please, remember, that this shape is usually terrible and try not to play it..     that's really true.. ;D
DiMan7 [3d\]: 1d kgs is like 1-2 real kyu
MXHero [4d\]: hahaa
]
;W[kj]WL[60]OW[3]C[WiteDragon [4k\]: lol
ptilu [2k\]: this app does not work for strong players
thehorror [3d?\]: can someone tell me what real is, please?
Catlemur [5k\]: hi
ptilu [2k\]: it said breakfast is 3d
farg: real is the outer world
Sasha0529 [1d\]: real here means actual level, lol
farg: i've only heard of it once
weMadeYou [4k\]: kgs ranks are a lot higher than almost every others, so 1d is about 2-3k everywhere else
okiol [1k\]: it doesn't "work" for anyone, it's just a fun thing
]
;B[of]BL[60]OB[4]C[ophiuroid [12k\]: ptilu, it said he's 5d
]
;W[og]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[mf]BL[60]OB[4]C[TblKBA [1d\]: p14 cant be good
thehorror [3d?\]: that's not true, wemadeyou
]
;W[ng]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[rc]BL[60]OB[4]C[kmr [1d\]: who said breakfast is 5d? :) 
lobosaito [1k\]: q 14????
ophiuroid [12k\]: the app
Muttley [3k\]: enough already :)
Muttley [3k\]: go-back-to-the-game-please :)
]
;W[qm]WL[60]OW[3]C[ChopSuey [1d\]: kgs rank > igs rank
thehorror [3d?\]: oh., yes, the game
MXHero [4d\]: woww
weMadeYou [4k\]: really? i thought about everything except like aga was stonger than our ranks lol
AHXD [1d\]: who is leading
Muttley [3k\]: yay, R7
weMadeYou [4k\]: yeha igs*
]
;B[qj]BL[60]OB[4]C[AutoAtari [2d\]: I just lost the game
AHXD [1d\]: r7 is quite deep
Catlemur [5k\]: r4
HappyLook [5d\]: Alex beated me 40 times in row already :(
WiteDragon [4k\]: no now i los tit too
thehorror [3d?\]: language
]
;W[ri]WL[60]OW[3]C[Sasha0529 [1d\]: kgs rank lower than standard level, i know my level poorer than 2k
kmr [1d\]: R7 is kinda most agressive move i think
seele [?\]: gogo p7! :D
]
;B[qo]BL[60]OB[4]C[seele [?\]: ;(
thehorror [3d?\]: what is standard? lol, you people are crazy. i better shut up before muttley cracks his whip again
]
;W[no]WL[60]OW[3]C[Muttley [3k\]: ker tssh.
DiMan7 [3d\]: EURO ranks is standard i think
MXHero [4d\]: cool w plan here
]
;B[kk]BL[60]OB[4]C[caubevalue [1k\]: sasha @@
]
;W[jj]WL[60]OW[3]C[Minjhou [7k\]: I'm with you, thehorror
AutoAtari [2d\]: kgs is real standard, everything else is relative
]
;B[jk]BL[60]OB[4]
;W[ij]WL[60]OW[3]C[Doflamingo [2d\]: it seems that black is a bit ahead
Sasha0529 [1d\]: EURO ranks is nothing compared to eastern Asia
pouchard [2d\]: b must reduce
farg: if anything is "standard" it would be the rankings of the oteai
Prodigious [3d?\]: except the oteai doesn't exist anymore
caubevalue [1k\]: gokifu.com search sasha ( is breakfast) @@
farg: exactly
WVoron [5d\]: o6
]
;B[or]BL[60]OB[3]C[Muttley [3k\]: J2
Muttley [3k\]: I was close!
eatramen [?\]: no 
eatramen [?\]: you weren't
weMadeYou [4k\]: lol j2?
humblelife [-\]: is that what your first grade teacher told you?
Muttley [3k\]: I would J2 as b here, sure
]
;W[id]WL[60]OW[3]C[thehorror [3d?\]: j2?
MXHero [4d\]: p2 aims at j2 later, you are so impatient! :)
eatramen [?\]: wow, B's pic is mad ugly
ptilu [2k\]: wow
Doflamingo [2d\]: i think p7  is enough for black to lead by points
eatramen [?\]: haha MX
thehorror [3d?\]: drugs, muttley, not good
]
;B[hd]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[ld]WL[60]OW[3]C[medical [3k\]: i would pass drugs and muttley too. bad combo
]
;B[le]BL[60]OB[3]C[DBraymer [17k\]: Oh my, this has become an interesting game
thehorror [3d?\]: i think i look quite good in that picture, ramen
Muttley [3k\]: well, L2 is too close so I could risk ending up overconcentrated
]
;W[jd]WL[60]OW[3]
;B[ke]BL[60]OB[3]C[seele [?\]: no eyes...
WVoron [5d\]: oops
medical [3k\]: :(
grmaster [3k\]: m13 may be
farg: aji at g14
FeuduCiel [12k\]: j 14
Sasha0529 [1d\]: i read Go news challenge from web, some 9p players vs 6d player in Korea and China, 6d won ALL games with 2 handi
]
;W[ic]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[ie]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[jc]WL[60]OW[2]C[AutoAtari [2d\]: did the 6d play white?
Minjhou [7k\]: 6d kgs rank?
]
;B[gg]BL[60]OB[3]C[Sasha0529 [1d\]: without handi, some 6d won as well
medical [3k\]: cmon, ranking systems are all relative and are just a tool to get a good game. they are good measure with two players INSIDE the system, but quite bad when both players are from different systems.
GoBored [1d\]: no way b survives
Sasha0529 [1d\]: their countries' rank... and those 9p more stronger than retired pros
AutoAtari [2d\]: way
dfgsgs: j13is the key point
MXHero [4d\]: if this group dies, i blame L13
MXHero [4d\]: :)
]
;W[ig]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[fh]BL[60]OB[3]C[seele [?\]: i blame L18 if the group dies!
seele [?\]: xd
farg: ranking is all relative to make people feel better or worse about themselves
]
;W[gh]WL[60]OW[2]C[Sasha0529 [1d\]: 9p play w
]
;B[gf]BL[60]OB[3]C[farg: and to find a good match yes :p
]
;W[fi]WL[60]OW[2]C[T [3d\]: alive
MXHero [4d\]: h12
spar [5k\]: interesting board.. looks like random
ais [1k\]: h12 
]
;B[hh]BL[60]OB[3]C[Sasha0529 [1d\]: that's why i said, here 6d is nothing
]
;W[eh]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[ih]BL[60]OB[3]C[AutoAtari [2d\]: Muttleeey, do something :p
GoBored [1d\]: yeah, one eye in sente
Doflamingo [2d\]: alive, but w got points
]
;W[jh]WL[60]OW[2]C[Shana [2d?\]: aww i thought w would play j12 instead of e12
thehorror [3d?\]: wow, did b really survive here?
]
;B[jg]BL[60]OB[3]C[GoBored [1d\]: then g16 gote
farg: yep
]
;W[hi]WL[60]OW[2]C[MXHero [4d\]: alright, turns out L13 was good
]
;B[kh]BL[60]OB[3]C[Valentino [2d\]: hmm b lived
Valentino [2d\]: impressive
]
;W[ii]WL[60]OW[2]C[cerveza: true..
]
;B[gd]BL[60]OB[3]C[caubevalue [1k\]: black died
farg: ...
ais [1k\]: ???
farg: 1k...
]
;W[on]WL[60]OW[2]C[seele [?\]: impressive work against a pro.. :o
Muttley [3k\]: now, J2.
ais [1k\]: really?
TheThe [6k\]: what died?
]
;B[pn]BL[60]OB[3]C[thehorror [3d?\]: i wouldn't be impressed with myself if i were b
expo [-\]: hope
]
;W[om]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[pm]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[sl]WL[60]OW[2]C[DapperDan [1k\]: what's with that situation on the right
]
;B[sj]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[rj]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[rk]BL[60]OB[3]C[ais [1k\]: h18 9 points
]
;W[sk]WL[60]OW[2]C[DapperDan [1k\]: i guess the cut does nothing
]
;B[sm]BL[60]OB[3]C[thehorror [3d?\]: the situatuion on the right is that there is no situation on the right
]
;W[rl]WL[60]OW[2]C[FeuduCiel [12k\]: magic w
AutoAtari [2d\]: wow
]
;B[rm]BL[60]OB[3]C[thehorror [3d?\]: omg, j2 now!
]
;W[ql]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[pl]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[si]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[qn]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[sj]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[rn]BL[60]OB[3]C[le4TC [7k\]: ow
DapperDan [1k\]: what is j2 suppossed to do?
k0n0 [?\]: so t7 mistake?
ais [1k\]: +33
]
;W[nr]WL[60]OW[2]C[AutoAtari [2d\]: saved r7 in sente... there is no justice
thehorror [3d?\]: j2 wins the game
blotter [23k?\]: r 7   was  nice
thehorror [3d?\]: it's the muttsuji
ais [1k\]: +34
GoBored [1d\]: SE overestimates center points
Muttley [3k\]: I want "muttsuji" on senseis :)
omggg [?\]: pfff j2, it's clearly h2!
DapperDan [1k\]: j2 is nothing now
ais [1k\]: l5 
WVoron [5d\]: p2 was bad
expo [-\]: "clearly"
expo [-\]: haha
Jazzman [1d\]: now w+15..
Muttley [3k\]: now that b is thicker I would K3
Doflamingo [2d\]: w+7 about
AutoAtari [2d\]: t7 should be s7?
MXHero [4d\]: is there soemthing around s13?
]
;B[rg]BL[60]OB[3]C[Muttley [3k\]: w is thicker, I mean
caubevalue [1k\]: w 21
MXHero [4d\]: OMG sweet, i called it
Muttley [3k\]: silence!  I keel you!
crottmann [1k?\]: muttley, stop spaming or we have to call an admin
k0n0 [?\]: yes, i think s7 was better
Muttley [3k\]: I've banned myself before, crottman.
thehorror [3d?\]: no need to call an admin. muttley is completely willing to ban himself
AutoAtari [2d\]: Muttley I love aKHmed :)
thehorror [3d?\]: muttley and i share a brain
Muttley [3k\]: case proven :)
MXHero [4d\]: although, this doesn't exactly have to work
]
;W[rf]WL[60]OW[2]C[Muttley [3k\]: "What was the last thing you saw?" :)
]
;B[pi]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[qh]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[ph]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[pg]WL[60]OW[2]C[WVoron [5d\]: resign
Kuvasz [4k\]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmBnvajSfWU
DapperDan [1k\]: is white flirting with disaster
Daihokama [2k?\]: s15 
MXHero [4d\]: t13?
farg: t12 ko
seele [?\]: m11 ?
Kamill [5k\]: m11 ?
WVoron [5d\]: t12
farg: t13 i guess yea
backpack1 [2d\]: w is alive
]
;B[re]BL[60]OB[3]C[thehorror [3d?\]: w fine
Sawae [-\]: m11 maybe
]
;W[sg]WL[60]OW[2]C[spar [5k\]: hah sente cut
MXHero [4d\]: t13 felt better than this, but it depends on the temperature of the board
Daihokama [2k?\]: m11 sente
thehorror [3d?\]: cut does nothing, though
Ootakamoku [2d\]: why didnt b play t13 instead of s15?
]
;B[mp]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[np]WL[60]OW[2]C[T [3d\]: t12 better
WVoron [5d\]: t12 must
Malingo [5d\]: t12 dosnt work becouse t14 sente
MXHero [4d\]: t12 didn't work, yeah
WVoron [5d\]: s15 so bad
]
;B[gp]BL[60]OB[3]C[WVoron [5d\]: oo
Muttley [3k\]: that is not J2.
farg: no it's not
farg: congratz
thehorror [3d?\]: t13 didn't kill ootaku
thehorror [3d?\]: just gives w another stone
MXHero [4d\]: thehorror, it aimed at a gote seki, worth about 5 points
thehorror [3d?\]: muttley, pm fj and tell him he is wrong
]
;W[do]WL[60]OW[2]C[Muttley [3k\]: nah
Muttley [3k\]: I'll just use bold.
WVoron [5d\]: dont see simple
]
;B[jq]BL[60]OB[3]C[iPwn: how do you get a name like T?
omggg [?\]: h2 aji beginning to shine
Muttley [3k\]: K3!  got that one :)
ophiuroid [12k\]: that's almost j2!
iPwn: doesnt kgs require at least 2 characters in your name?
Muttley [3k\]: well, I said K3 now that w is thicker
]
;W[kp]WL[60]OW[2]C[thehorror [3d?\]: i see, mx, thanks
]
;B[hq]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[cn]WL[60]OW[2]C[thehorror [3d?\]: but still, gote seki not that good for b
Ootakamoku [2d\]: looks like majority of w territory will be second line :)
]
;B[cm]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[bn]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[bm]BL[60]OB[3]C[backpack1 [2d\]: b has few cash either
MXHero [4d\]: what a pretty sacrifice
Muttley [3k\]: no-one ever invaded a second-line moyo and lived to tell the tale.
okiol [1k\]: crawl is the fastest kind of swimming
pouchard [2d\]: T12 instead of S15 seemed to kill
]
;W[ip]WL[60]OW[2]C[thehorror [3d?\]: 2nd line moyos don't exist
Muttley [3k\]: actually, Butterfly is
iPwn: if opponent 30k then yes muttley
okiol [1k\]: lol second life moyo :D
]
;B[iq]BL[60]OB[3]
;W[jp]WL[60]OW[2]C[Goran [2d\]: it only seemed to kill pouchard
KoReNJe [3d\]: g18 is big
thehorror [3d?\]: 2nd line moyo = territory
thehorror [3d?\]: how did such a NOOB become an admin
bertjo [5k\]: if there's only d2  and r2 
Ootakamoku [2d\]: to call it moyo, it has to be possible to reduce it, or invade it, hence its probably dead stones.
farg: admin does not = strong
bertjo [5k\]: 2nd line moyo
MXHero [4d\]: e2 maybe?
farg: as long as you keep the peace, you can be 30k and an addy
Ootakamoku [2d\]: f2?
Malingo [5d\]: f4 
goldtree [3k\]: g5 possible?
]
;B[er]BL[60]OB[2]C[thehorror [3d?\]: many things are possible
Ootakamoku [2d\]: depends on what you mean possible, its legal move and..
MXHero [4d\]: wohoo
Nick8a [1d\]: hmm
Nick8a [1d\]: e2 interesting
thehorror [3d?\]: mxhero proves he has more than looks
]
;W[ao]WL[60]OW[2]C[MXHero [4d\]: :)
Ootakamoku [2d\]: e2 a bit weird, now cant help corner anymore
]
;B[fp]BL[60]OB[2]C[DapperDan [1k\]: i think white might have some gandiose plans
Ootakamoku [2d\]: w plans involve staying alive
]
;W[eq]WL[60]OW[2]C[backpack1 [2d\]: e2 tried to connect the corner and the bottom while sacrificing the j3 stones... or live at the bottom
Architect [2k\]: g18 getting bigger
]
;B[fr]BL[60]OB[2]C[Architect [2k\]: b must find sente
pouchard [2d\]: E2 is fetching aji
]
;W[br]WL[60]OW[2]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: g18 is 7 points gote
MXHero [4d\]: such a pretty sacrifice!
thehorror [3d?\]: 8p gote
spar [5k\]: b must use center 
]
;B[ln]BL[60]OB[2]C[spar [5k\]: in sente :)
]
;W[jr]WL[60]OW[2]C[chingu [4d?\]: i would love to be 8p, even if in gote
]
;B[ir]BL[60]OB[2]C[Muttley [3k\]: one does not simply use the centre
thehorror [3d?\]: j2!!!!!!!!
]
;W[kr]WL[60]OW[2]C[x0000 [-\]: =)
Sasha0529 [1d\]: g18 more than 12 points value
Muttley [3k\]: you see, if J2 had been played before ... well never mind :)
HappyLook [5d\]: w + 12 at least..
HappyLook [5d\]: g18 = 8 points
TblKBA [1d\]: g18 now?
Sawae [-\]: g18 yes
]
;B[gn]BL[60]OB[2]C[MXHero [4d\]: not right now, b needed to fix the bottom first
Malingo [5d\]: h18 seems better
TblKBA [1d\]: why not h18 
Sasha0529 [1d\]: dear not only 8... i think more than 12
FeuduCiel [12k\]: xes I saw G6
HappyLook [5d\]: Sasha0529 recount :)
x0000 [-\]: j1 is attractive
MXHero [4d\]: h18 is exactly 8 points, guys
farg: h18 g 18 either or it's miai
Ootakamoku [2d\]: kinda sad if w gets a7..
DangoMango [2k\]: is it me or does this game take a whole load of time
thehorror [3d?\]: just you
]
;W[mo]WL[60]OW[2]C[Ootakamoku [2d\]: actually, why not play a7, double sente, no?
DangoMango [2k\]: been watching this game for hours
AutoAtari [2d\]: it's at least 1 point, probably 2 or more
FeuduCiel [12k\]: m5
thehorror [3d?\]: a7 gote
MXHero [4d\]: oot, b might want to play d2 first
farg: no...
farg: a7 is not gote
thehorror [3d?\]: doh, nvm
backpack1 [2d\]: a7 is sente
yame [2k\]: which torunament is this?
selpahi [1k\]: none
]
;B[ns]BL[60]OB[2]C[farg: this is a teaching game
thehorror [3d?\]: no tournament. teaching game
]
;W[ms]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[os]BL[60]OB[2]C[backpack1 [2d\]: this was gote ...
farg: for breakfast's students
]
;W[am]WL[60]OW[2]C[farg: and us
]
;B[al]BL[60]OB[2]C[pouchard [2d\]: this exchange was too good for b
]
;W[an]WL[60]OW[2]C[AutoAtari [2d\]: it's the dinner league tournament
thehorror [3d?\]: winner gets a biscuit
]
;B[mr]BL[60]OB[2]
;W[ls]WL[60]OW[2]
;B[mq]BL[60]OB[2]C[MXHero [4d\]: whaaat?!
ophiuroid [12k\]: ??
farg: lol
thehorror [3d?\]: ...
Some1Pr0 [17k\]: lol
thehorror [3d?\]: k1
x0000 [-\]: m5 
backpack1 [2d\]: b is desperate
Drunkard [6k\]: xd
MXHero [4d\]: wooo
Architect [2k\]: if b gets g18 first, he will win
farg: b8
]
;W[js]WL[60]OW[2]C[AutoAtari [2d\]: m2?
omggg [?\]: m2 l1 m3 ?
backpack1 [2d\]: nope, no way b is gonna win
HappyLook [5d\]: Architect actually no...
Ootakamoku [2d\]: there is like no way this ever dies
]
;B[jn]BL[60]OB[2]C[Architect [2k\]: b8 is big
Ootakamoku [2d\]: this move looks like sente tho
backpack1 [2d\]: b8  and game over.
Architect [2k\]: oh
thehorror [3d?\]: a true master will get b8
farg: too bad b couldn't destroy w's eyes
]
;W[mn]WL[60]OW[2]C[thehorror [3d?\]: this is sente though
thehorror [3d?\]: b's move
thehorror [3d?\]: was
Ootakamoku [2d\]: n7
Juntho [24k\]: ZAAAA
]
;B[bk]BL[60]OB[2]
;W[hb]WL[60]OW[2]C[MXHero [4d\]: bam!
backpack1 [2d\]: this game is so over :/
pouchard [2d\]: w ahead
MXHero [4d\]: w just scored exactly 8 points, nice
thehorror [3d?\]: score!
backpack1 [2d\]: actually its 9points MXHero
thehorror [3d?\]: i heard 12
fj [6d\]: thx
breakfast [3p\]: thx
thehorror [3d?\]: gg
Juntho [24k\]: gg
pouchard [2d\]: nice game
HappyLook [5d\]: actually 8..
])
(;B[lj]C[breakfast [3p\]: good to seal W
breakfast [3p\]: so, I cannot invade
fj [6d\]: yes
]))
(;W[bh]
;B[ci]
;W[bf]C[breakfast [3p\]: D14
]
;B[df]
;W[bi]
;B[cj]
;W[eh]C[breakfast [3p\]: yes, thought about it
breakfast [3p\]: from pro game?
fj [6d\]: I rememebers sth like this
AutoAtari [2d\]: who's teaching whom? :)
]
;B[bj]
;W[ag]
;B[gh]
;W[ej]
;B[dm]C[breakfast [3p\]: thx, will study it later
thehorror [3d?\]: we are all students
Muttley [3k\]: AutoAtari, it's respect for knowledge and skill :)
]))
(;B[di]C[fj [6d\]: no, it's played before
]
;W[eh]
;B[bi]C[breakfast [3p\]: I only know this
]
;W[df]
;B[eg]
;W[bh]
;B[ci]
;W[be]
;B[ec]
;W[eb]
;B[fe]
;W[ec]
;B[bg]C[breakfast [3p\]: but looks good for W
breakfast [3p\]: your wall is hard to use
]))
(;B[ch]C[farg: it was 8. 7 plus one capture
breakfast [3p\]: maybe just cross-cut
]))
(;B[ef]
;W[cj]
;B[eb]
;W[db]
;B[ec]
;W[ed]
;B[dd]
;W[ea]
;B[fd]
;W[fb]
;B[ee]
;W[jc]
;B[cl]C[DangoMango [2k\]: e14 is considered bad shape
breakfast [3p\]: I was afraid of this
breakfast [3p\]: C8 - so good
])
(;B[eg]C[AutoAtari [2d\]:  I know what you're thinking. "Did he get nine points or only eight?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself.
breakfast [3p\]: or with keima
]))
